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You summed that up really well. I'm Lutheran too, and that's pretty much how I feel. Of course, my synod (SE Michigan) allows pastors to perform same-sex "commitment ceremonies," so when Em and I decided to get married, it wasn't an issue. I sometimes wonder how the ELCA as a church body officially views our relationship, but I'm kind of afraid to find out.


Thanks for posting this. As a fellow Lutheran, I was dreading the results of the study--I had a feeling that, especially in the current political climate, the recommendations would be as weenie as they are.

You'd think a church founded upon the teachings of such a revolutionary could find its spine on this issue. I guess we can at least be thankful for this small step, and work and pray for greater change.


You do this so well Moxie. Thank you for another great post. I am UMC, so I totally understand. Its very difficult, because my home church is very liberal. We even have a transvestite who comes regularly and feels at home, welcomed and loved. But when you know what happens above your home church it becomes very frustrating. I think this is another case where the small voices just have to keep speaking. So, again, thank you. We will all keep moving forward.

Disorganized Religion

Surprise, surprise! Your church is hypocritical and you're all tormented by it. How naive can you be? How can you even be a member of a church that rejects homosexuals and same-sex unions? You claim to be a feminist? What sort of feminist would belong to an organization that delegitimizes the capacity for two women to love one another?'re just another self-deluded drone who doesn't practive what you preach. Do you actually think the church is going to change? ever? Don't hold your breath. Be realistic. It will NEVER happen. What are YOU going to do about it?


Um, OK, troll alert.

I feel your frustration and disappointment, Moxie. D and I are still searching for a church we are comfortable with. Problem is, we can't find one that embraces the voice of Christianity that we see in the Bible -- a tolerant, loving church that focuses on our actions to each other as humans, not our "sins," real or perceived.

That, and the fact that we are practically Buddhist.

When you find a church that does all of that, let me know....


I grew up Lutheran in an urban ministry congregation that was radically political and social-justice oriented. Imagine my surprise when I learned about the homophobic policies of the ELCA as a young adult.

I want to stay and fight, but after the AIDS fight and Right to Marriage fight and the pro-choice fight, and the gut-wrenching pain of this election, I just want to feel that the place I go for spiritual sustenance has my back all the way up to the top. So, I'm going to the local Unitarian Universalist Church now. Let the straight folks and stronger gay folks than I fight this one out.

I really hope that things change and those of us who have been so hurt can someday come home. In the meantime, thanks to you for having the strength to stay put.



I thought I was braced for this decision--did any of us really think the commission would recommend anything but the lame-ass weenie option? But reading the report in church yesterday, I still felt sucker-punched. All that debate, all those endless months of letters in the "Lutheran," and we end up with "Let's go on talking to each other?" Although I think the troll up above is not paying any attention at all, I confess, I've spent the last 24 hours (I didn't pay attention to whatever press the preliminary report might have gotten) asking myself if I can continue to belong to the ELCA and call myself an ethical, moral person, not to mention a worthwhile friend to my gay friends.

Look, either the theologians agree that the Biblical passages re: homosexual sex (or relationships, if you're willing to concede that much, which I AM NOT) are more compelling and obedience-requiring than the Biblican passages re: remarriage after divorce being adultery and women keeping silent and subordinate in the church, or they don't. There isn't anything to "discuss," or anything to "prayerfully consider." We ordain women, we remarry divorced people, we roster divorced people who remarry, and all the Biblical prohibitions against those things are a million times more explicit, not to mention sanctioned by Christ (he doesn't say the law condeming the adulterous woman is wrong, just that it can't be enforced by equally sinning people--no where does Christ say a thing about homosexual sex).

This was clearly a sop to the millions of theologically lazy folks who would rather target gay people within the church, single them out for entirely secular reasons, make homosexuals the scapegoats for their anxiety about cultural change, do all that rather than pay attention to theology and the Gospel. What a disgrace.


OOh! My very own troll! I was actually thinking if I got one on this post it would be of the God-hates-gays vairety, telling me you can't be Christian and in favor of equal rights for all people. But instead, it was someone who's apparently never heard of the concept of change from within. I wonder if my troll lives in the US, and if so, how s/he can be a citizen of a country that limits huan rights in such an egregious fashion.

Nancy, I'm sorry that you feel you have to go, but I understand it. There's only so much a person can fight before that bone tiredness sets in.

Thanks for all your support and commnets. I'm glad I have a place to get this out and hear some feedback. My husband isn't Lutheran, so he doesn't really get how disheartened it makes me.


The church where my husband is a pastor is one of a minority of progressive churches in the Presbyterian Church (USA). To be in our denomination is frustrating/upsetting--gays can not be ordained to ministry of any kind (not even be an Elder) unless they are celibate(!). There are members of the denomination who are "outing" gay ministers and basically getting them kicked out (or to resign). A lot of church members are leaving the denomination. It's hard to know what to do--leave or work for change? We want to work for change. I'm sure people told Ghandi, Jesus, MLK, Mother Theresa, etc., "Give up! You don't stand a chance!" Giving up in this instance, I believe, is contrary to the will of God and to the example set by Christ. You never give up on being light in a dark world.


Moxie, I'm SO sorry about the multiple posts! Actually, I kept getting the message that says "An error occurred" which lead me to assume that it didn't post, but it did the first time around.


No problem Darcie. I can go clean them up.
Thanks for your comment. I sometimes feel like all the like-minded people of faith should form a separate church, but then that wouldn't help anything either, really.

Lisa S (& Riley, Bella, & Adelyn)

I'm so glad I'm Catholic! You could learn a thing or two about embracing differences from us, you silly Lutheran, you!

Or...maybe I'm just a self-deluded drone??



This is one reason I am really happy to be an Episcopalian. Though we share your general niceness and blandness, the Episcopal Church's policy of "local option" means a bishop can act on his/her conscience, a priest can act on his/her conscience, a congregation can act on its conscience. For the most part there's no "larger church" doing any "prosecution."

And I have to say that the fear that some people will leave is foolish. Some churches left the ECUSA after the gay bishop hoopla, but not many, and overall, demoninational giving has gone up. Membership has been rising. As Gene Robinson (the gay bishop in question) put it, the Church couldn't afford to buy the kind of publicity it got from all that.

And thus: GLBT's who've felt exiled from church for years got to see a church do the right thing and came back.

Here's hoping we get the same-sex relationship blessing in the Book of Occasional services at the next national meeting. It would have passed last time, but the gay bishop thing made it necessary to compromise and continue with the local option solution to that issue for now. Though, even if the service becomes official, as with marriage, no priest will have to perform it--it will still be up to individual conscience.

But on a supportive note, I think the Lutherans will come around soon enough. These polity issues really make some denominations slower than others--it's not theology or the people, but just governance styles.

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