Q&A: Itchy boobs, weaning, and what in the world do I do with nap time?

How could I come up with a better title for this post than the subject line of the email? Jennifer writes:

"I really never expected that I would push weaning. My peanut is 25 months old and I have always believed in Child Led Weaning until a several weeks ago. Suddenly I wasn't enjoying nursing her so much and I was really wanting my body back. The worst of it was that I really became physically uncomfortable with nursing. I would get antsy, and my boobs would itch or they'd feel an uncomfortable tickle while she nursed. At first I thought this was due to my own monthly  hormonal changes, but the physical symptoms didn't let up after a week or so. So I decided I would start to set limits around nursing and try to move this weaning process along a bit.

I started with telling her my milk was sleeping when she woke up for her usual 2am nursing, ah my little all night nurser! (We haven't nursed to sleep at bedtime since she was 18 months old.) My logic was that it would be more manageable to eliminate night nursing before her nap nursing because she can fight sleep at nap time. I also started to tell her at times that we could nurse only a little bit and then Mommy will tell her when Mommy is "all done." So now (after 3 weeks of 'moving things along') she only nurses at around 6am, again at naptime, and just a little bit before bed. What I'm experiencing is that her 6am nursing feels fine, I can deal. At nap time I can handle nursing her down, and maybe one wake up which includes  nursing on boob #2. After both sides are done I can't do any more, therefore she doesn't go back to sleep which really sucks. The bedtime nursing has been really uncomfortable the last 2 nights, so I limit it big time.

So I have 2 questions:

1) Is this itchy, uncomfortable business what comes with weaning, or is this what I get for 'moving things along'?

2) And what in the world do I do with nap time? She's 2 so she's at the age that she can totally nix a nap but really needs it. It's the only time she still nurses down and I don't know what else to do except maybe go for a car ride at nap time for a few days, and then what? There's gotta be a better way, right?"

Oh, the guilt. I think most of us feel some guilt about weaning, whether we do it at three days or four years. I can still remember being convinced that my older son had gotten a cold because I'd finally weaned him the week before and thinking that made me a horrible mother.

In a perfect world, we'd all be happy nursing until our children were ready to stop on their own. But that's not the way it goes for most nursing pairs. Usually, the mother wants or needs to stop nursing before the baby is quite ready. When I was in the middle of it I felt horrible about putting my needs above my child's needs, but in hindsight I feel pretty good about the way I started to teach my son that other people had rights, too, and that respecting someone else's needs didn't mean he was being abandoned. He could still get the comfort and love he wanted from me, even without nursing.

I think most of us are really circumspect about weaning and the weaning process. Understanding that it's  an important part of growing up, not least because it teaches children that someone else has a right to her own body, helps to make the transition easier for the mother. And kids who are given alternate forms of comfort and affection come out of the weaning process secure and attached.

Of course, my musings aren't helping with your itchy boob problem. Frankly, I'm stumped. I'm going to give three guesses, any of which could be true and all of which could be false. In no particular order, I'm going to guess that the itching is a) psychosomatic (because you're feeling kind of itchy about still nursing but also itchy about weaning), b) caused by some kind of minor infection or fungus (like low-grade thrush), or c) caused by dry skin from showers that are too hot or a harsh soap. But as I said, I haven't heard of this and really don't know. If it's still happening a week after you're really done nursing, go see a doctor.

Now I know you think you're joking about just driving her around to get her to sleep without nursing down, but people have done similar things with great success. I don't nurse outside once a kid is no longer a little baby, so when I wanted to cut out all daytime nursing sessions with my older son, I did it when the weather was warm and left the house in the morning and didn't go back home until suppertime. We'd play at the playground, and when it was time for his nap I'd put him in the stroller and just walk around until he fell asleep. It was tiring for me, but it cut out the daytime nursings in a week without his even noticing. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'll guess that I'm not the only one to have done this. Distraction is really the king of all parenting techniques for the two-year-old set.

Does anyone else want to share distraction methods they used to cut out nursing sessions with a kid this age? Or your own feelings of guilt about the weaning process? And if anyone else has experienced this itchy breast thing, please speak up (anonymously, if you'd like).

Comments

[enu]

Any chance of pregnancy? That's a common reason nursing gets icky. I would agree a trip to the dr. if the itchiness continues - there's all kinda skin things that can happen just as easily on the boob as any other part of the body.
The nap thing is tough. One of mine gave up naps at a very early age - well, I suppose we could put in several hours of work and misery to get her down for an hour, but in the end that didn't do her any good. She was much happier when we just let the naps go. I was a wreck, though!

[Sue]

I second the suggestion about pregnancy - I've heard that nursig gets really uncomfortable during pregancy (the good news is, milk apparetly tastes bad around month 4, so she may self-wean as a result).

I also second the suggestion about driving the kid around to get her to sleep. My daughter had terrible nap resistance starting at around 2 1/2 until about 2 and 10 months. Pretty much the only thing that helped was driving her around. In fact, we almost had the new baby in the reception area of the hospital because my husband had been out driving her around. It's a ridiculous waste of time and gas, but if it's the only thing that preserves the nap, it's worth it (stroller might work, too, if you're in an urban area or somewhere you can walk around - we're not). It paid off - now that she's three, she takes anap in her own bed, by herself, with no complaint (we went through a "lie down with me mommy" phase right after the baby was born. That was fun - me, a 2.5 yo, and a newborn all in a toddler bed together- you could try that, too)

Alas, I'm having my own itchy-boob problems. Anyone have a good treatment for mastitis rash? I hadn't gotten it with previous bouts with mastitis, but it seems ot have arrived with a vengeance this time, and it'sdriving me CRAZY. Thanks, moxie, for the grated potato tip - it helped a LOT and cleared the plug out within a day (t usually takes 2 or 3 for me).

[hedra]

Ditto third on the pregnancy is possible thing. It was a kind of skin-crawly, want to just climb out of my body and leave it behind feeling. And painful, too, for that matter. Very tender/sore, plus the itchy/crawlies.

That said, I also am getting that feeling with the weaning process (we're down to once or twice a week for the twins). Only, it was after the weaning started, really. I think. I don't remember feeling itchy before I started the process (in our case, different reasons but also rather more parent-led than child-led... Moxie, again, you've spotted the core points so beautifully, thanks! I'm not prone to guilt much, but this one was bugging me.) Anyway, it feels like the discomfort of having a baby nurse past the normal supply point (like in a growth spurt), that kind of prickly/itchy inside (milk ducts) feeling. The one where I know if I keep going, my supply is going to start coming UP again. Which, at the moment, I'm not really wanting to do. 10+ years of being pregnant or nursing or both, straight through... Can I be done now? I'm done, really, can you two just stop, please? I'd like it if you'd WANT to stop, that'd be perfect. Only, not happening. Dangit. Another dream bites the dust - oh, to be the true earth mama (cue some 70's/crunchy Indian-inspired music?) and never be bothered by the nursing, and to have allowed all my children to self-wean totally without any intervention on my part. So far, I'm scoring a big fat ZERO on that one. NONE of them got to self-wean. So far, they're all doing okay with the negotiated weaning. And as I noted to someone else recently, there's a tendency for us 'body/biology-centric' types to resist the widening gap between the child's needs and our own as they get older, and to find the use of intellect (talking, negotiating, logic, distraction, etc.) somehow less 'wholesome', less natural than just rolling over and suppressing our needs as if they didn't exist... but honestly, we evolved with brains, in relationship with other humans, and the use of language and other intellectual skills isn't somehow foreign to our biology. It's all part of the same package. The gap between their needs and ours widens naturally as we go, and the space in between is negotiated more and more with the mental skills and less with the physical skills. :shrug: That's natural, too, IMHO. The point is to meet the underlying needs, even if the methods aren't always the same.

Back to the symptoms... The feeling it is also similar to low-grade thrush in the ducts, too. Prickly/itchy. So that could be involved.

Mental picture of your scenario looks to me like: maybe you had had a low-grade case of thrush, and that started the process, and then as your supply drops to accomodate, the sessions that have lower supply are less comfortable? Not sure, really, but that's my WAG.

I have no idea if it is normal, though. Just 'you're not totally alone', if that helps!

[ABCD]

For the nursing down for nap problem. I had this issue with my 2nd DD. I switched to nursing her in a rocking chair (for nap time) for 2-3 weeks, then transitioned to rocking only for nap. She was about 23 months and it worked well for her.
Good luck!

[hedra]

Oh, and we suck at naps, so no help here.

[Fahmi]

I just weaned my son (20 mo) a few weeks ago (over Labor Day weekend), and I had the same itchy feeling. It was actually the itchy feeling that got me started on the weaning, and it didn't get better until about a week after he was finally weaned. I assume it had something to do with the fact that my son likes to play while nursing, so there was a lot of abrasiveness, and picking. I used a lot of Lanolin (ah, reminds me of the early days) during then to get through it. Now that his mouth and paws are nowhere nearby, I am much better.

And Moxie - I had the same exact guilt - my son caught a cold three days after weaning, and the cough is still lingering.

[Ally]

I had the same itchy, prickly feelings with no pregnancy, and IMO it was just my body returning to its monthly cycle and my hormones telling me I was "done."

If it helps at all, I've read many, many comments at various places online from mothers who *had* to stop nursing between 18-24 months because they physically couldn't stand it. It seems to be fairly common, and having experienced it and worked through it myself, I've come to terms that it's just the way some of our bodies are built and I think maybe it's a natural compulsion to wean so that our bodies can return to a regular monthly schedule allowing us to conceive again. So IMO, the itching is part of your body telling you to stop.

It's ok to wean now, really, it is. Yes, he'll seem to be more sick this winter and yes, you'll wish you could go back and nurse him through it. But like Moxie said, this is a good lesson for your son to learn, and you'll find other ways of comforting. I felt free, in a way, after weaning. We snuggled more, rocked more, and it was wonderful to have him reach for me and NOT want my breasts! My ds was the same age as your daughter when we weaned, and I held out that long because two years was a personal goal of mine, and because he had his tonsils taken out right before his 2 year birthday and I knew we'd want nursing to be a part of the recovery process.

By the time we weaned for good, we had been cutting sessions slowly for 6 months. First daytime nursing on the weekends was cut to once or twice. Then the morning, which he had lost interest in anyway. Then we nightweaned. Finally he was down to nighttime, and he was still nursing to sleep. I slowly cut back on the duration, finally only nursing while i sang all the verses to "Hush little baby." When the song was done, nursing was done, and while he fought it, eventually he accepted it and I think it was comforting for him to know exactly how long he had.

I then told him one morning that we weren't going to nurse to sleep anymore. THat night he pitched a fit and it sucked, but I held my ground and he got over it much quicker than I thought he would. I thought he had forgotten about nursing all together, until a few months later when he saw me changing my clothes and called my breasts "Nurses." We talked off and on for a few months after that about how he used to drink milk from my nurses when he was a baby and he was a big boy now, and you know what? It was fine. More than fine, it was a positive shared memory, and all in all, both of our memories about nursing are happy ones. That made me glad I stopped when I did, because much longer and it wouldn't have ended pleasantly. Something to keep in mind for when you're feeling guilting. Pushing the process allows it to end gently and systematically, instead of you flipping out one day and stopping abruptly.

[Kayla]

My son is 22.5 months, and I weaned him at around 20 months. I remember the itchy, antsy, uncomfortable feeling perfectly. There were many nights where both of us lay there crying because all he wanted to do was nurse, and I just COULDN'T. TAKE. IT. When I did manage to nurse him I would lay there and writhe and whine and it was just pitiful. So I started sleeping with a sports bra on so he couldn't 'help himself' and after a couple weeks he finally got it. I have no advice, just know the "get this kid off me" sensation isn't just yours!

[Charisse]

I definitely found nursing got uncomfortable as we approached 2. I wouldn't have described it as itchy, I just didn't like the way it felt any more. I think Mouse would have kept nursing for a while yet, but I weaned her right at 2--it worked out fine. Among other strategies (distraction, bribery, etc.) I wrote her a little book about it. It's cute and rhyme-y and talks about all the stuff big kids do instead, in situations where babies might nurse. I bound it with ribbon and we read it about 3 times a day for the last couple weeks of nursing. It really helped a lot. (I've sent it to a few people from this site & would be glad to share again--just email me at the below.)

Naps...well, Mouse was always a motion napper, so once she weaned she pretty much stopped napping at home unless sick. She wasn't far from done with all naps at that point (always a low napper) so we didn't worry too much. Strollers & cars are your friends, though, if you've got a kid who needs to get down.

Good luck!!

[Megan]

I thought my DS (now 21 months old) would be the kid you see on some PBS special, still nursing at 6 years old and talking seriously to the interviewer about the benefits of extended breastfeeding.

And yet...he's the one who has lost interest in me! I feel a little jilted. He was SUCH a booby boy, and now he goes for days without nursing. If we do nurse, more often than not, it's me who initiates it.

But on to your question. We always, without exception, nursed down for naps and nighttime sleep, which is why I thought we would never stop. Now, though, he's just as happy to either have some regular milk (with Daddy), or be held in the nursing position (with me), and rocked/sung to sleep. The cuddling seems to have supplanted the nursing nicely. Not sure how helpful this is, since I don't even know how/when it all happened. As usual, I'm both surprised and amazed by my kid.

[Kristin]

Itchy uncomfortable breasts sounds like thrush to me. Is so, the good news is that is can be fixed.
I weaned dd at 2 years. The night and nap feeds were the last to go. It did one at a time, I just stopped. There was about a 10 day adjustment for both. For naptime I just read stories with her and eventually she went to sleep.

[Julie]

Like Moxie, I was also convinced that my son's first cold was a result of weaning - happened within a week of the transition. Oh, the guilt.

For us, we still "nurse down" for bed and naps, but with a bottle of milk. Not sure if that would work for you, but it helps Alex settle-in. Might be an adequate substitution for your child....or it might be an awful tease.

I was laughing when you said that you told her your milk was "sleeping".....because that is what we do whenever we want Alex to stop playing and start getting ready for bed. We tell him his toys need to go night-night and we literally put them away one-by-one, kiss them, stroke them, and turn off the lights. We even tell him when he's jumping on our bed before bath that the bed needs to go night-night....and he kisses the bed, strokes it and turns off the light. A nice alternative to the screaming fit we used to get when we announced that it was time for a bath "NO NIGHT-NIGHT!!!!!!" and the collapsing on the floor in (fabricated) hysterics.

hee hee.

[Milk Machine]

I'm so glad you posted this, Moxie, and asked this, Jennifer, because I've been wondering about the nursing process a lot these weeks. My son is 21 months old and has no interest in stopping - he nurses after (my) work, to sleep, and 3 or 4 times between 4:30 and 7 am. More on weekends. I would love to cut down, even wean. But what do you do when your kid yells "nurse! nurse! nurse!" and will not be distracted? Seriously, any thoughts?

Jennifer, it sounds like you are in the same boat as many people here (myself included). Good luck!

[Alice]

Thank you for this. I have been feeling guilty about this weaning thing AND I've had the itchy boobs as well!
My daughter wanted to stop nursing at about 8 months, but I forced it until a couple of weeks ago (when she was 42 weeks old - since she was in the womb 42 weeks, I figured it was a nice 'circle'). But I've been feeling really guilty and for the last couple of weeks of feeding I had itchy boobs. I put it down to the fact that this is what 'most' women go through and that it's a sign that you're doing the right thing by 'signing off'. Well at least that's what I was telling myself to ease the guilt. The itching has stopped by the way, I didn't do anything about it as it wasn't insanely annoying.

I've been feeling guilty because I wanted my body back more than I wanted to nurse. In my family you don't start to lose the baby weight until you STOP nursing and I have been very sick of carrying around this extra 40 pounds. But I have been feeling bad about putting my wants/needs ahead of hers. So this post makes me feel better.

As for distraction. I didn't need to, since Alpha didn't want to nurse, but a friend used a 'special toy' and reading to help. She turned that nursing time into a special reading/ playtime. It seemed to help.

[MrsHaley]

No ideas for Jennifer, just a big THANK YOU to all the posters who weaned "late." My 9-month-old and I are still nursing 6-8 times a day and I'm starting to get, "You're STILL nursing?!?" from well-meaning passers-by. I plan to nurse as long as DD wants -- or until, apparently, I get the "itchies" at 18-24 months -- and it's so nice to read so many anecdotes from mothers who have done the same.

[carmie]

Yes, yes, yes on the itchy, irritable feeling. My son is 18 months and I am DONE with nursing. I actually have daydreams of being diagnosed with breast cancer and having a double mastectomy as a way of finishing. Sigh. It might be funny if it weren't so frickin gruesome.

I am still trying to figure out how to get him to drop the nurse-down for nap. Bedtime nursing is almost done. I just found out that my inlaws have been giving him a bottle of milk at naptime over my expressly stated wishes that they do NOT do so (bad for his teeth). The only comfort in that irritating news is that at least it's not just me that has a hard time getting him down for a nap without nursing.

Charisse's idea is great! I think I might wait until the 18-month sleep regression/ toddler angst eases up and start reading him a home-made book about weaning.

Good luck, Jennifer! We're all in this together.

[Shandra]

Wow are you in my head? :) I have that itchy feeling too and my son's 25 mos and I think we're heading towards mom-led weaning. All the comments have been edifying.

I would try popping some acidophilus in case it's thrush though. :)

[Kelly]

I had an itchy breast (on the inside, not the surface) between my two kids - when I wasn't nursing. Almost drove me crazy. Then when my son was born this summer, we got actual thrush, treated it with a diflucan - and bingo - no more itchy breast. So I'd say low-grade candida is a good possible cause.

[Kathy]

I had thrush in the milk ducts. No visible external symptoms, but it was awful. (Itchy, tingly, electric shock feeling, especially during a let-down and about 20 minutes later.) 24 hours after starting Difulcan, I was a new woman. Using Lotrimin helped a tiny bit, which helped with getting the diagnosis, but never would have been enough to treat the internal infection.

Good luck, Jennifer! Whether it turns out to be thrush, weaning, or something else altogether, I hope you get it cleared up, soon!

[Charisse]

Milk Machine, have you tried out-and-out bribery? I felt a bit guilty about it, but a cookie or chocolate chip was pretty effective with Mouse as long as it wasn't bedtime. (In fact, we created a new after-work routine of going to a cafe and having a treat, instead of nursing. We still do it after preschool to this day.)

Also, a very special big-kid sippy cup decorated to the nines with dragonfly stickers was a good one for morning--I'd wake her up and instead of sitting in the nursing chair, say "hey, do you want milk in your special cup this morning?!" ...after a couple weeks of that the morning one was done.

[Lucky]

RE: naps. When my DD started waning on her naps, we instituted daily "quiet time" - she had to stay in her room and could do pretty much what she wanted. Probably around 70% of the time I would go in and find her crashed on the floor, in a chair, on the bed, wherever. 2 might be a bit young - but it is worth trying to move away from calling it naptime to calling it quiet time and setting the expectations. I think this daily on-her-own time had the benefit also of teaching her to entertain herself. As a 3, 4 and now 5 year old she can happily play alone in her room for an hour or more while I get MY quiet time.

[hedra]

BTW, for the extended nursers, my girls are almost 35 months (yeah, really), so the itchy thing doesn't necessarily start at 18-24 months... Oh, and I've had thrush a few times, including around 18 months and 23 months, and I wonder if that's not somehow a vulnerable time for developing thrush as well. It does kind of force the question, of weaning to be addressed, but if your decision is 'I'd really rather use the nursing as a tantrum tamer through the 2 1/2 year awfulness stage', then a round of diflucan may be worth a try. (the tantrum tamer thing worked for some of my kids, but not all, so I'm not guaranteeing anything there, either.)

[hedra]

Gah! That wasn't comma-love, really! Typos in comma form! I swear! (exclamation love I'll admit.) ;)

[Amy]

Just sending empathy on the weaning guilt. #3 is only 4.5 months old (and a serious boob man) and I'm already having fantasies of weaning him (though I nursed his siblings 12.5 and 14.5 months). A lot is different this time around... I'm a WOHM as opposed to a SAHM... two older kids to keep up with... life just isn't as slow as it was which makes enjoying nursing harder. I won't wean him... but I feel guilty for *wanting* to wean him.

I agree with the car rides for naps. Do it for a week or two then try to re-establish a nap routine without nursing.

[SarcastiCarrie]

I am the queen of the car ride nap. Drive for 10 to 20 minutes, fall asleep, then transfer to the crib. For months.

Eventually, one day the car did not start, so I just buckled him in and we sat in a quiet garage. Worked like a charm (faster, even, only 8 minutes or so). Transfer to the crib.

We have been doing this quiet in the garage thing for months, but we are completely unable to transition to sitting quietly in the rocking chair or laying by yourself in your crib to fall asleep. It's like seeing anything other than the back of my head or the back of the driver's seat is just too distracting. I think this is why the car ride actually took longer than the boring garage.

Anyway, you can do it.

And, I felt guilty about weaning, but it was time, and we've all come through it just fine.

[Melinda]

I weaned my son slowly over 5 months when I was pg with my daughter. He ended up nursing just over 3 years, though I had intended on letting him wean. I really think hormones play a role in the itchiness as I was going crazy when I was pg. When I was not nursing I would think "I can do this, I can get through it." and then he'd latch and it would take all of my willpower not to shove him away. I felt guilt for quite a while (he asked for over a year afterwards) but finally told myself that it was my body telling me to wean and that I should respect that. Good luck!

[anon.]

I'd always heard of this "itchy" breasts thing as a normal phenomenon of one's cycle returning? As far as I know, the theory is that a child will eventually take in so much of their nutrients from solid food that the amount of nursing they are doing doesn't produce enough prolactin to keep all your "monthly" hormones suppressed. Your body starts trying to shift back into a cyclical system and the return of your other hormones makes nursing less comfortable so your body can get pregnant again. I think pregnant women are supposed to experience the same thing with their own hormonal shifts trying to protect the new fetus's calories.

[Ally]

"BTW, for the extended nursers, my girls are almost 35 months (yeah, really), so the itchy thing doesn't necessarily start at 18-24 months..."

Oh, absolutely. I know plenty of people (online mostly) that happily nursed past 2 and 3 years of age. Completely unscientific and anectdotal, but extended nursers, from what I've observed, tend to fall into "must wean at 2 years" and "blowing right past two years with little notice."

Anon, that is exactly what I've thought - that it's the body's way of shifting away from nursing the toddler and gearing up to conceive again.

[molly]

Is there any way someone else can put her in for naps? I took a temp job for 3 weeks and the babysitter put my 19 month old in for naps, which totally eliminated the nursing.

Or like that other poster said, make it "quiet time". Just recently I started giving my daughter (now almost 3) books in her crib, and telling her "You do not have to sleep, you can read, or sing songs, etc, but now it's rest time". 90% of the time she'll read her books and then conk out.

I nursed until my daughter was 23 months and trhough pregnancy until 4 weeks from giving birth. At about 15 months (with the walking) I decided to go with a "dont offer, don't refuse" policy on breastfeeding and found I got very few request during the day. That meant I was only nursing at "scheduled" times, 1: on wakeup in the am 2: before nap 3: after nap 4: at bedtime.

Having someone else do the nap cut out the naptime ones. My husband took over bedtime about about 22 months (to cut out the bedtime nursing) and I changed my morning routine at the very end which cut out the last one.

But OH BOY THE ITCHING! Mostly because it was no longer really nursing to drink but more just gently sucking on the nipple, it drove me crazy.

[mezzaluna]

i started getting the heebie-jeebies about nursing while i was pregnant with #2. some days were worse than others. some nursing positions were worse than others. best things i could do were keep hydrated, and keep yeast/thrush at bay. when my son didn't wean as my milk dried up, i assumed i'd be tandeming, but between his maturation and my gentle discouragement of frequent nursing, he ended up forgetting how to latch after a few days not nursing. that was at 27 months... my daughter was born a week later, so i didn't get much of a break from nursing ;)

the whole weaning process, even though i didn't force the end of it, was a difficult one for me - i was never sure exactly where to set the limits, and i still second guess myself... but you know, he handled it quite well! he was more ready for it than i would have guessed. he still occasionally asks to nurse and i will let him try when i feel like it...but it's been 6 months since he latched on, so i call that weaned... still... there are times that i've missed having it in my toddler toolbox enough that i've actually offered to nurse him, and he sometimes accepts and tries... i've "nursed" him down and calmed a couple meltdowns with whatever it is we do now.

naps is another story. he's 33 months and napping one or two days a week. when he does nap he stays up too late at night, but we avoid the afternoon meltdowns. it's a pain to get him down while dealing with the baby, too... so i have no advice, but it's a pretty desperate situation here.

[r0ckaby3]

Man, it's almost hard to remember weaning DS; he self weaned around 13-14 months. We had it easy from the sound of things! I did make a point to set aside a specific time/memory for out "last" nursing that I would remember always once I realized he was nursing less and less. My MIL had made a comment that you remember all of your baby's firsts, but not all of their lasts! So, during one of our baths, just after he was a year old, I nursed him in the tub and it was really sweet and sentimental and I'm glad I have that as my memory of my last time nursing him (even though he didn't completely stop nursing for a couple weeks after that).

[allison]

First of all, good for you for nursing as long as you have.

To me, itching equaled thrush. I had crazy itching twice during our nursing career... both times I had thrush. Didn't have any itchiness when we weaned.

For naptime weaning, I was lucky to have other people available to put our daughter to sleep and give her a sippy of milk. I was scarce at naptime for about a month. By the time I got back on naptime duty, it was easy to convince her that having a sippy at naptime was the way that we did things now.

Good luck to you. We actually had a very pleasant weaning experience at 21 months old, which was a nice surprise.

[Jane Plane]

This has been so interesting to read. Both of my kids self-weaned shortly after they started walking, at 14-15 months. So, while I didn't feel guilty, I did feel a little melancholy that the nursing part of our relationship was over.

I didn't actually think Jennifer sounded like she *was* feeling very guilty, and was surprised that that was Moxie's first response. Obviously it struck a chord with many commenters, but I wanted to add my own two cents and just say that feeling guilt about "mother-led" weaning isn't universal, nor is it really warranted. Not that anyone should feel badly for feeling guilty, but I think it's perfectly okay to be the person who (however gently and lovingly) ends the nursing relationship. And I know lots of mothers who would agree.

[misty]

I agree with Jane. I recently weaned around 14-15 months. Yes I took the initiative but only after seeing her lose interest in a big way. I haven't felt guilty at all. Ok, I did for a minute when she had an ear infection the week following. But overall it feels great. Just like with all the other milestones, for me it is really hard to be sad because 1) they are so proud of each accomlpishment and 2) are more fun every day. But that is just my two cents.

As for the itchy breasts/skin crawling feeling, I didn't experience any with the return of my cycle (which happened around 4-5 months ppd?) but in the beginning, when I was SO exuasted all the time, I had this feeling constantly. It would creep back from time to time and always when I was really overtired.

[Bugmama]

Wow. Talk about being in my head. 30 minutes ago, I was lying in bed, nursing my 29 month old little bug down to his nap, feeling bummed because yet again I had to resort to the nursing when I'm trying to wean. I was thinking, "maybe it's time to post to Moxie and see if she and her flock of wise women have any advice".

Then, once he's out, I get online and here you all are.

I'm 40 and just had my 3rd (very early but if you count the two before him, my FIFTH) miscarriage. My doctor wants me to wean, hoping that by asking my body to do one hard thing instead of two, I'll be able to hold onto the next pregnancy.

I had hoped that this wouldn't be an issue. We're down to nursing first thing in the am and naptime. I don't think I've had milk for a long time, it's just a comfort thing for him. The morning has been pretty easy to ditch but the naptime!! Argh! Driving used to work but it doesn't any more. A few days ago I drove him around for 45 minutes and he just looked grim but awake, waiting me out.

I might feel differently if he didn't need the nap, but he's obviously tired. Also, we're co-sleeping mostly out of choice but also out of need, as we're currently dealing with a stalled renovation that means the second bedroom (the one that will belong to little bug) is our living room. So, he doesn't have "his own room" in which he could be left for quiet time.

The other factor is my needing the break. I've been joking that when he gives the nap up for good, it will be "vodka in the toilet tank time" for me.

Sorry to post such a long comment, perhaps I should have put this straight to Moxie.

To review. Want to wean. Afraid to lose naptime. Driving doesn't work. "Quiet time" Great in theory but I'm dubious. Oh, and little bug's idea of negotiating is to say yes so he'll get what he wants but then not follow through on his end of the deal, so sticker/reward chart seems doubtful. HELP!

[expat]

Is she sure she's not pegnant? The heebies jeebies are a nursing in pregnancy thing.

[hedra]

Bugmama, my advice is that if you really want to wean (that is, you feel it is NECESSARY, really do), then draw your line in the sand and stick with it. Even if that means no nap for a bit. Yeah, it will suck, but you're working on the idea that without it, miscarriage is a higher risk (which it may or may not be, IMHO, your OB sounds like they're shooting in the dark unless they've done hormone studies or nutrient analysis). BTDT, on the multiple miscarriages (six, including a set of twins, it all sucks), but continuing to nurse was not considered an issue (age notwithstanding - my twins were born when I was 38 - more likely for me is the recent study indicating that girls exposed to second-hand smoke as children have a higher repeat-miscarriage risk). This is not to say that miscarriage cannot be linked to the hormone levels/resources issue, but I'd want to check that first, especially if the weaning process would be a monkey wrench to the rest of your life. I nursed into (sometimes well into) all the pregnancies after the first, and some stuck and others didn't, regardless of the level of nursing. I will say that I took high-dose vitamin B to suppress prolactin to get my cycles back whenever we were trying again... not sure if that is relevant, but hey, full disclosure.

Um, anyway... Once you're sure and certain that weaning is required (and I've been there, too - something about hard contractions at 20 weeks with the twin preg that went to term), it becomes a matter of putting the foot down very firmly, and then sucking up on the other end of it. Which may mean letting the child stay up a few days (merry h*ll for everyone) until a new routine develops. Hard weaning is not my favorite experience, but I've done it (once), and the balance in retrospect was right - severe preemie twins vs that nurse-down tool... tossed the nursing, really firmly and clearly, and B's very sensitive 'wiggle room' sense clearly indicated that there was NO squishy in my decision. It only takes a micron of squish for my kids to just KNOW they can outwait, out-argue, out-misery me. If you make it none - even meaning there's no nap for the exhausted child for a few days - then they know that, too. Getting to the ABSOLUTE position is hard. You have to believe it yourself, it has to weigh more heavily than the child's distress, and that takes a lot of weight.

So, that's my main tip for dealing with the naps - just abandon all plans long enough that you can start to find a new pattern and a new plan, even though that means overtired misery for a bit. But then, as I noted, I'm not a great one for nap advice in general, as we do more 'roll with it' than 'scheduled'. Most of my kids just put themselves down for naps (or not), on their own schedule. Various times, as needed. For some reason, this has not seemed to cause any troubles. They sleep fine at school and elsewhere, sleep fine at night (actually have more trouble going to sleep at night if they had a 'scheduled nap'), etc. Granted, *I* would love it if they went down for a nice orderly nap... but not even our experienced daycare could get that to happen with the twins, and they only started napping on a schedule at all when they started school. :shrug:

Good luck with the pregnancy plans, and take care of yourself re: the losses. They suck, and each one sucks in its own unique way.

[Joy]

As a family daycare provider and having worked with the 2 yr old set in a daycare for many years, I have some theories and strategies for naps. Yes, sometimes it's easier for a non- parent to convince a child to nap, and obviously the nursing's not available, but these things have also worked with my own three children who have nursed well past 1 yr. (even the 7 year old still naps occasionally when he needs it.) Most importantly, I think, is to be firm that it is nap time and be matter- of- fact that it's going to happen. (Not that it should turn into a power struggle, just that children are very intuitive and can sense if you're just trying to see IF they will nap, in which case they probably won't.) The reality is that you're not doing them any favors by giving in to the whim of the child here, as you wouldn't by letting them stay home from school if they were shy/ scared about it, etc. Being comfortable sleeping without having to nurse, as Moxie wisely said, is an important part of growing up, and can be a very positive thing for both of you.

Some ideas:

Make it interesting/fun. Let them sleep somewhere novel; the living room sofa, outside in a sleeping bag under a tree, in the playroom, in a giant cardboard box, in the bathtub. Tell them this is a special treat that we're having instead of nursing. Make it clear that if playing happens instead of sleeping, it will be back to the regular spot, and follow through.

Sing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star softly over and over, while gently rubbing/patting child's head/back.

Rocking/ Walking around.

Get a little cot/ sleeping mat/ play tent/ canopy just for naps. You can make a canopy relatively cheaply with several yards of tulle from a fabric store. Tie a string around one end and suspend from the ceiling. She/ he will feel like a princess/ adventurer or whatever. Again, tell them it's a new thing you're doing instead of nursing, and be clear that it's for sleeping not playing, and take it away if it doesn't work.

If you're finding that all efforts to comfort/ soothe/ lull said child to sleep are failing, and you're beginning to feel a tad manipulated or a power struggle does develop, I've found that a good way to make the child feel the consequences of inappropriate behavior is to remove a treasured stuffed object/ blankie or whatever each time you go in to check and they're out of bed/ playing/ making noise or generally not doing what they're expected to do. (Make sure they have plenty to begin with, just in case.)

Finally, expect there to be days when it just all doesn't fall into place like you would like, and be able to laugh and roll with it and try to get them into bed a little early at night.

Hope this helps.

[j.j.]

I recently 'moved things along' with my 29-month old daughter, mostly due to my pregnancy (I'm 17 weeks) and the sore nipples that go along with that. (Are you sure you're not pregnant!?) She also nursed to sleep at nap, so what we did was start with step no. 1 which was nurse before nap but then lay her down awake. This worked fine cause we talked it up a lot, about how she was such a big girl she could sleep on her own. And we then were able to go in there and just tell her she had to go back to sleep if she woke too early.
Step no. 2 was to cut the nursing out at that time...which was also fine! We got a basket of books, new Mercer Mayer books that she loves, she got to pick two for nap, we read, then she lays down on her belly and I rub her back while I either count to 20 or sing the ABCs. Then I tell her I love her and walk out! And it's fine!
She's down to nursing only in the morning, which, like you said, is much more comfortable for whatever reason.

[Stephanie]

As soon as I saw itchy, I thought thrush. Consider this possibility first, just in case it blossoms into a worse case.

[Ellen]

This thread made me want to go out an buy a pregnancy test!! Holy moley, am I itchy and "over it" and trying to get pregnant! I thought I was just having some freaky rash symptoms with the itch- bless Moxie for always providing perspective.

Anyway, my daughter is 21 months and I've found that by not offering during the day, she dropped any ursing beyond pre-nap and nighttime nursing. I had her completely weaned and then she cut her molars and we're back to square one. I read Dr. Jay Gordon's piece on changing the pattern of co-sleeping http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp (we co-sleep, which makes it even harder)ad that has helped- basically a progression from nursing before bed, to nursing less and less. She really responds well to me saying, "boobies go nigh-night, Zoo go nigh-night too (her nickname)." I loved the idea of the special non-nursing tent bed. Some friends of ours threw a birthday-style party for bye-bye to Boobs. There were cupcakes and their daughter blew out the boob candle (at 23 months, I think). She did well with that, as a memory they could come back to.

Good luck, thanks for such a relevant thread, and I'm off to Walgreens for a preggo test.

[bugmama]

Bugmama here with a quick update in case anyone is still checking this thread. Thanks to those who gave ideas and support. Someone suggested rocking and that prompted me to haul our glider out of the basement. It has now been dubbed our "non-nursing chair" and has worked several times for napping. Not only is it working, it's pleasant to have my bug on my lap while we rock and rock. It takes a while but it beats the hell out of driving for days or dealing with him flopping around like a gaffed salmon. We're not all done yet, but we're on our way. Thanks again.

[weaning dilema]

Thank you to you all for existing and sharing. I felt very alone as all my mummy friends do not BF. Heartfelt hugs to all. oxo