Some updates

Danielle and I were just laughing because she sent me an email from her client (GoodNites) about a free confidential conference call about bedwetting they're sponsoring with an expert tomorrow (Thursday in North/South America) and then discovered that yesterday's post was about bedwetting, and the reader even mentioned GoodNights. Ha. Anyway, here are the details of the call:

"The client is GoodNites, the disposable sleep boxers and sleep shorts for children who have issues with bedwetting. Our original plan was to reach out to bloggers who are talking about their struggles with bedwetting (with advice and free product), but when we did a conversation audit, we were very surprised to find out that NO ONE is blogging about it.

This is kind of upsetting, because as we all know, the best source of information for moms is from other moms. If no mom bloggers are talking about bedwetting, then the only sources of information are on product websites and on medical sites like WebMD.

So, what we are offering up is a conference call this Thursday at 2pm CST. The call will be with Judsen Culbreth (her bio is below). She will answer any questions that anyone has about bedwetting, and can offer up both professional and personal experience and advice. The call is anonymous, we are just asking participants to register via a completely confidential email to an account we have set up. They can also submit questions via the email, and we will pass those on to Judsen. Also, we are inviting any bloggers to the call who aren't facing the issue, but would like to educate their readers. Oh, and if you want to pass on questions for readers who might feel embarrassed to email them, you can invite them to post them in your comments, if you like.

Again, the call is this Thursday, September 20th at 2pm CST. To get the dial-in information, just send an email to parentchat@edelman.com.

Judsen's Bio:
Judsen Culbreth is a mother, parenting expert and author with both professional and personal experience on the topic bedwetting.  Formerly Editor-in-Chief of Working Mother magazine and Executive Editor at Redbook, Judsen's editorial work has been honored with many awards, including two Parents' Choice Silver Honor Awards.  Culbreth has also appeared on hundreds of TV and radio news programs, including NBC's Today show, CBS Evening News, ABC's Prime Time Live and CNN."

2 CST is 3 on the East Coast of the US and Canada, and noon on the West Coast. Check the world clock to find out what time it is where you are. If you don't want to email in a question you can leave it in the comments here anonymously.

Heather writes:

"Even though I'm only an aunt I read your stuff daily, especially about PPD which I am scared of.  I've bookmarked you series and already told my husband that when the time comes he is in charge of everything in those articles.

Imagine my surprise as I was watching Good Eats on the Food Network tonight and saw him rework rice crispy treats in a way that made me think of you {it was the flax oil that did it for me}.  I thought maybe your readers {who aren't hopelessly addicted to Alton Brown & Good Eats} might like it."

Recipe for Brown Rice Crispy Bar from Alton Brown at www.FoodTV.com

(For those who don't want to click, the ingredients are puffed brown rice, flax seed oil, honey, mini marshmallows, slivered almonds, dried cranberries, dried cherries, and dried blueberries.)

"Only an aunt," pshaw. Anyone who's interested in kids is welcome here. As for these bars, though, well, I love flax seed oil more than most, but I don't think I could go this far. The flax seed oil and dried fruit would be great for postpartum moms (the dried fruit has a lot of great fiber), but this recipe reminds me of the stuff my mom used to try to pass off to us when I was a kid. (I have lots of memories of going to co-op breakdown day to divide the huge bags of carob chips and wheat germ into packets for the individual families. Good times.) Even the lack of raisins doesn't make me want to try it. I'd eat the dried blueberries by themselves, though.

And now for an anticlimactic update on my Kindergarten situation: I still don't like the teacher and don't trust her as far as I can throw her, but she seems to think my son is kind of funny so she's being nice to him. I worry that if what my son says is true, the teacher is scapegoating another kid in the class (call me crazy but I don't think a 5-year-old should be sent out of the classroom three times in the first three weeks of school unless the behavior is violent or seriously disruptive). I'm still going to talk to the principal, but it may be more of a general "what's really going on with her?" session than a "help my kid" session.

He was fine about going to school yesterday, but then freaked out when it was time for me to leave, and wouldn't go back into his room for awhile. But at least he wasn't sobbing uncontrollably like before.

Things I don't want to have happen that have happened to different people in my family: Skip a grade and still end up the smart ostracized kid only younger than everyone else to boot, sit in the back of the room bored reading the dictionary until the teacher yells at you and moves the dictionary too high for you to reach (although you end up with a stellar vocabulary up through the letter H), be told by your kindergarten teacher that you're too "wild" for school (because you have boy energy) so you barely graduate from high school because you believe her, mentally tune out from school from Kindergarten on because there's nothing for you there, be told you're so smart so often that you end up afraid to take any risks because everyone's invested in your success.

That's what I'm afraid of, not a little boredom. And there are a bunch of reasons we didn't end up in a GATE program this year. Once of which was that I felt I was going to be able to trust a Kindergarten teacher, because all the K teachers I've ever known have been resourceful, smart about little kids, and kind. I'm pretty gobsmacked by my instant mistrust of this teacher (I have to say that everyone else at the school had been great).

Jenni, I didn't go in telling her he could read because the teacher and former-teacher commenters here told me not to (not me specifically, but parents) a few weeks ago. They said that teachers figure out the kids quickly anyway, and don't need or want the parents to bring their own prejudgments into it. I was surprised that she hadn't picked up on the fact that my son's reading fluently, especially in light of this whole "read at all costs" thing they've got going with the forced reading at the beginning of class.

Speaking of that, I'm finally getting my routine down so I'm not as frazzled in the morning. My son is insisting on school lunch ("I don't know what it was but it tasted good!" Help...me...) and doesn't eat anything I pack him ("I ate one grape tomato, Mom!"). So I don't have to pack him anything. My babysitter meets us at school and takes the little one. But still, the whole set-up is basically for the birds. And I'm still pissed about all the school supplies (it's not like we can all just pile into the car and stop at Target--it required at least two stores for that list).

How are you guys?

Comments

[Blythe]

I have been reading your "I hate kindergarten" posts and comments with interest. I have an infant, but have several friends and family members whose children happen to be starting school this year too. It seems like such an anxiety-producing time, almost more for the parents than the kids. I think it's because these normally coolheaded, optimistic parents see how important a good start to anything is, and since kindergarten is not just the beginning of a year of school, but the beginning of School and, really, Formal Education, which they've deemed a very important priority for their families. I wonder if any teachers or moms of older kids could talk about how a rough kindergarten year impacted their kid's future education. Does it really mean the kid hates school forever (or for a long time)? Or do most of them bounce back from it the same way they might bounce back from having that terrible third grade teacher who was so senile she couldn't remember our names until February? (Not that I have any personal experience here.)

[Shandra]

I can talk about grade one, which actually used to be like kindergarten - where you learn to read.

When I worked in special ed there were two english classroom grade one teachers. In one of their classes, out of about 25 kids, about 2-3 kids would come out each year unable to read and end up in my learning centre for extra reading support, and some years there was an ongoing problem, and some years they'd all catch up. (BTW, here is a weird folk tale thing: don't WORRY if your kid is not reading until his/her baby teeth are out.)

In the other class, about 10 kids, almost all of them boys, would come out unable to read and also end up in reading support, and 4 or 5 of them would also be frustrated and angry and hate school, and 3 or so of them would end up in special ed for a few more years.

Every. year. For five years running.

So my completely anectodal, personal experience is - yes, it matters.

I was not working on the gifted end of the spectrum so I have no professional experience there. My personal experience is probably too anecdotal to be helpful - I had wonderful kindergarten teachers actually (we have two kindergartens here), but still struggled there and through elementary school through bullying and all kinds of social issues, that were only resolved by getting into a school of other asynchronous learners.

[hedra]

Honestly, I think one great teacher can turn a lot around. Even late in the game. And one awful teacher can turn a lot around the other way, even late in the game. But it became, for me, a series of reversals that just taught me that I could be traumatized, but I could also recover. Math... oh, yeah, loved math until I got the alcoholic (slipped out into the hallway to drink during class, fell asleep during exams, had us learn the material by reading the book, and spend all classroom time having us write our homework on the board while he went around and corrected it, end of story. However, one of my great prides is that I confronted him about it when I dropped Calc mid-term, told him that everyone in the class was cheating by passing their tests around while he slept, and that I refused to participate in either his class or that behavior. Two years later, my brother had him for something, and was by all accounts he'd done a 180 and was an AMAZING teacher. Me guessing he sobered up.) ... um, no, no experience there, either, LOL! It took a genius math teacher in my remedial college math class (I froze up on even simple algebra after that horror class), to get me back to feeling sane around math again. Almost failed the first exam in that class (even the remedial stuff!), but then got a B+ on the second, and aced the other three. WOO!

I'm sorry you ended up believing and getting slammed. It hurts. Trust and expectations violated. I know that I tend to be a bit cautious about the 'my kid is really smart' thing, and just let the teachers figure it out, after being treated like a total FREAK when I said it the first time to the first teacher for G. I was immediately labeled 'one of THOSE parents'... but fortunately, the school and teachers weren't idiots, just reactionary regarding the new parents (the usual initial push-back), and they did bump him up to the next level of class, and everyone so far has recognized within a week that he's SMART with the capital letters. He's not rocket smart, but he's definitely in the moderately gifted category, which still means he's up in the 1 in tens of thousands or so level, so the average teacher won't have had many (or any) like him before, though they may have met a few. So I'd have been with you on letting them figure it out. I'd still vote with getting tested for GATE right away, at this point. Get the IEP in place, get things rolling. You hit the rocks in the road despite the best plans and intentions, time to look for a different road.

Still sucks. And I'm still sorry she doesn't give you trustworthy vibes.

Things for us? Well, I just left a message for M and R's school saying that they could consider moving the girls into separate classrooms from each other NOW, instead of waiting for next year, if they think that will make the year go better. Yeah, the twin-on-twin classroom 'issues' have popped up. They don't pop up for all twins, and the issues tend to stick around even when the kids are in separate rooms (they just pick someone new to play the dynamics out on), but ... but neither of them seems to miss the other when they're apart this year, and they are bugging the teachers and each other to death - stealing each other's work materials, pestering, crowding, etc. The best outcomes are (according to research) when the childrens' preference for 'together or apart' are honored... and while they're too young IMHO to figure out whether they'd LIKE being apart more (having not really tried it before), I'm thinking a little separateness is probably in order. I'd figured it would be K or 1st grade before they'd need to be apart in order to maximise their function, but no, once again, they're doing their own thing instead of what I'd predicted. Funny that. Ah, well, whatever works.

B is doing well this year, and is enjoying the fact that the girl he was best friends with last year isn't there this year. He hasn't mentioned it much at all, but ... things are just easier without her there. She was pretty mean to him at times, tried to control him, he detested that, yet he really liked her at times, too. This year, there's only one peer for him, Jack, who he likes (but who he'd barely hung out with last year), and who seems to be a much more honest, forthright, and honorable child, and not so much into the manipulation stuff. The teacher reports that he's doing great, and as of a week ago, he's tying his shoes and reading (woo!). I'd wondered if he'd be particularly delayed on reading, since he has an articulation delay, which makes for some challenges with phonics. But so far, so good!

G, in his superior-rated Charter school, is also doing great. There are a few hiccups - he's a bit arrogant about his brains (yeah, he knows he's smart), and that leads to him making stupid-ass mistakes due to general assumptions. So he's blown homework, and he didn't study for a test last night because he didn't check through his papers before he handed them in to the teacher, so he didn't HAVE his page to study from. So his test today is likely to get his worst grade ever. Um, oops? If she asks you if you have the material to work from, DO NOT ASSUME that if you don't have it, you left it at grandma's house. GET ANOTHER COPY. Back yourself up. Don't leave yourself lots of chances to blow it because you're so used to not blowing it. It's all judgement skills, but he lacks some because he's just used to making the huge leaps without help. Oy. So, we know what skills we'll be working on this year... fall-back. He never felt he needed to double-check, or get backup copies, or be extra-triple-certain of anything. He just knows. Only now, he's finding that's not necessarily so.

Oh, and he wants to start Band. Whee.... twice a week early pickups at school, which would possibly work IF I didn't have to pick the other three up 30+ minutes away at the same time. GAH. Granted, I've wanted him to start an instrument for AGES, but he's just never been quite ready. This time, despite the extra 30 minutes of practice time each night, he's still saying he wants to do it. Kind of sunk in his seat and groaned about the practice time... but still said he wanted to go for it. Percussion (which means Bells in 4th grade)... yeah, the band will be practicing at our house, 'cause ya can't take the drum kit to the friend's house every week. I'm mentally buckled down for that. Batten the hatches, and soundproof the garage. ;)

So far, so good. Definite hitches, but all workable. And so far, I like all the teachers, even at the new school (they had 300 applicants for about 20 spots, so they could really pick and choose, and I like who they chose, so far).

[Shandra]

I should say - matters to SOME kids. The family is important too and El Chico clearly has that going for him.

[hedra]

Oh, and G's in 4th, B's in K, M and R are in pre-school with two years to do before K, at best (not yet 3).

Argh, and wanted to mention the skipping grades thing - did that, myself. Started early, carried on. Mostly it was okay, sometimes it really sucked. Tweens and Puberty were HELL. College rocked, though it was annoying to not be legal drinking age until the week of finals senior year. I definitely like the Montessori approach, keeping kids with their social peers. G was ahead socially AND intellectually, so they jumped him forward. But he eventually self-selected back to the age-set peers, and so he cycled a grade before K, spending 4 years in a 3 year classroom, and is now age-matched again (though that puts him on the older side, with a November birthday). That seems to work, though. My biggest issues were the peer ones... but then, I'm also an extrovert, so being socially isolated was an agony. An introvert is less likely to care, provided they have at least one good friend, somewhere.

[Kristin]

I wondered why you just didn't tell the teacher he could read. I think if someone wrote to you about the same teacher, you would enoucourage them to go with their instincts. If you think there is something off then you are probably right!

[mrs m]

long-time reader, very occasional poster.

does anyone else think that hedra should write her own blog & stop putting 500+ words in the comments?

ok already, i get it. you have 4 kids, you've been through it all & seen it all & you're the mother of mothers. I GET IT. THIS blog is not all about you. it's about the rest of us. you can have your own blog where you can navel-gaze about M and G and B and Q and Z and the rest of them.

thank you.

[m]

Moxie, I love this blog. Thanks so much for keeping it up. (I hope the school situation gets 'fixed' soon.)

[Jen]

I'm also hopelessly addicted to any of Alton Brown's shows. My DH has made the Crispy Bars mentioned, and they were amazing. Of course we had our own variation. We couldn't find brown rice puffs, so we used wheat puffs. We used Lemon oil instead of flax seed oil. And we always do different variations on the dried fruits that are put in (as suggested in the show.)

[rudyinparis]

Oh, mrs m, I like Hedra's contributions. Certainly she does have the authority & material to have her own blog, but that doesn't mean she can't/shouldn't post here. I've always really liked the dynamic she adds--Moxie as the more-or-less impartial facilitator, Hedra to give it a twist. And I thought it was charming that Moxie asked "How are you guys?" and it felt quite genuine, as in, oh, what's going on with you guys out there? So Hedra answered, and if I was the type I would too ("This! And this! And this great book! And isn't the world crazy?!") Moxie DID ask, and I think it's nice. I also thought your post was kind of funny, and I mean that, too, in a nice way. It made me smile. Oy, listen to me, so laid back today.

[pnuts mama]

i think the thing i like the most about this forum is the mutual respect that 99.9% of the readers and commenters give each other. the wonderful thing about the comments is, if the comment isn't pertinent to the readers situation, you can skip on down to the next one.

i would imagine if i ever had a personal problem with any of the comments/commenters i could email moxie directly and let her know and she could deal with it in a more appropriate manner.

***
moxie, your description of what has happened to your family members was my story, reading in the back of kindergarten/1st grade (remember when we learned letters first, then to read in 1st grade? ha!), organizing the books/toys/blocks, etc., acting up and trying to get any ounce of attention i could to the detriment of my classmates. that's why i suggested the G/T program for el C, cause i know about it in NYC. although i don't know if they had a K version of it back then.

as for us, life is good and we are looking forward to the warm weather to come back! fall came too early for me and i welcome the 80's back this weekend!

[Julie]

First of all, I love Hedra's comments. I wish she had her own blog - but mostly because I love everything she has to say. Keep posting here please Hedra and say as much as you want.....but also think about your own blog too. A lot of what you say resonates with me.

As for the bad teacher dilemma......,my observations have been that kids who have been "teacher disabled" - meaning they've spent a year with a bad/unmotivated/uninvolved teacher tend to need a dynamic teacher the following year to "undo" some of the damage. I used to teach 4th grade and would get a number of kids from a 3rd grade teacher who literally was phoning it in....took every friday off....read the newspaper while kids were doing worksheets in their forward-facing rows, sent kids outside for LONG periods of time (missing critical worksheet instruction)......and I would have to spend a lot of my time one-on-one with these kids to get them checked back into school. Not a problem for me......but if these kids get ANOTHER checked out teacher, I have noticed that 2 of them in a row pretty much end the game for these kids. So one teacher? Not a problem so much. But 2 in a row can be disastrous. Hopefully you have administrators like I did who knew this and would make sure these kids were placed in dynamic classrooms the following year.

And there is no substitute for great parenting at home (preaching to the choir on this blog I know). If your kid has a bad teacher......pick up the slack at home. Teach them what you think they should be learning and be the bridge they need to get to the next year. It just really sucks when it's in K...we all dream of that being a magical year of learning and discovery for our kids, and it can be devastating when we discover that it's not.

[Asha]

Just wanted to pop in and say hi and give you a little empathetic pat on the shoulder. We've just come through some rough K and 1st years, and my son has started 2nd at a new school that "gets" gifted kids -- what an incredible difference. Changing schools was a drastic step for us, but, at least for now, seems to have been the right one.

I've always been of the mind that we work with the bumps in the road -- that's what makes our kids stronger and more resilient -- but there comes a time when you realize you need to change the situation. I'm not sure WHEN you realize that (I had to be encouraged by several people to do so)...it's hard.

I wish you the best as you navigate the next few weeks. You should be able to tell a lot more once the transition craziness is over and things settle into a routine.

ps. Hedra's comments are an incredible addition to Moxie's blog (and mine) and I'm grateful for them. Blogs are forums for conversation, plain and simple. We're all benefit when the conversation is so meaningful.

[hedra]

Mrs M is entitled to her opinion, too.

I apologize for the extreme length of my comments. I'm a writer first, and editor second (way second). Right now, I have little time to edit, so the comments are long. I can, if you like, put a header note in so people know to skip ahead? I'm happy to if that would help. I'm also looking forward to having time to freakin EDIT FOR LENGTH, which takes three times as long as writing... maybe if I get laid off work.

I am HIGHLY aware that this is Moxie's blog. I am even uncomfortable when people mention me specifically in the comments. It's nice to be defended, but I do agree that it is MOXIE's blog, and I've asked her in the past to let me know if I'm crossing the line. I come here because Moxie is brilliant, and while I can often add a twist or context or a data point (or four), she's better at distilling the essentials than I usually am. Why in heck would I want to draw any attention AWAY from what she writes?

And I do hope I don't come across as the mother of all mothers, though obviously, I do to Mrs M. There's no such thing, and I'm horrified (or maybe mortified, or both?) that I somehow presented that way. Yes, the four data points give me some range, but I cringe at the idea that this means something in particular other than that I have four specific data points (which may or may not be relevant at all to yours).

As for this post, she asked, I answered. Do feel free to tell Moxie if I'm really bothering you, because she can easily get ahold of me to let me know.

[SarcastiCarrie]

I've enjoyed hedra's writing since stumbling on her at storknet writing about her twin pregnancy (and the scariest (to me) birth story I ever read that had a happy outcome).

And I have adopted "safe, respectful, and kind" as our family rule.

Does anyone know whether they sell GoodNights in large packages? I am a huge fan of Huggies Overnights, but I don't see them in a size 6. All I see at the store are GoodNites in packs of 5 (for some ungodly price).

I was in gifted programming in grade school (with enriched musical Orff instruction) and it made a huge difference. Unfortunately, the funding dried up in fifth grade and no more enrichment for me after that. I just phoned it in until college. No study skills at all at a top-notch univeristy, despite a challenging college prep/AP curriculum in HS. THe teachers were just so good at conveying information at the HS level that I didn't need to study, so BAM, terrible teaching professors at college and I was up a river. THe GPA never quite recovered from that first quarter ugliness.

So, bottom line, kids need work that will challenge them and so they will learn study skills.

[Julie]

I have never seen Huggies OVernights in size 6 either....in fact size 5 is so rare that when I find them I buy every package they have in stock. Sorry to anyone in the LA area who comes to the store after me looking for them. What would be the next step for us, since I'm now sqeezing him into size 5's? I bought some Good Nites but haven't used them yet. He's still in size 5 diapers, though we've used 6's in a pinch just fine. I'm looking for ideas, since we love a big bottle (or 2) of milk right before night night time. Are the Good Nites in the small size the next step?

[dregina]

Hey Moxie et al -

There's an interesting article in this week's New Yorker (Sept 17th edition) on colic. I don't necessarily agree with everything that's said, but it's a nice review of the limited studies that have been done of the problem, and it's very kind and compassionate to the parents left to cope with months upon months of crying for hours and hours.

You can only get the abstract online, but for those interested the link is http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/09/17/070917fa_fact_groopman.

And as far as Hedra's comments go - if you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. Isn't that a better solution to your issue than trying to embarrass or shame her out of our little community? Especially when others of us find her helpful?

[G's momma]

If you are ever really desperate for some size 5 Huggies Overnites, you can go to drugstore.com. If you purchase enough stuff, I think you get free shipping.

I searched and searched but could not find a larger size of overnight diaper. Why do they assume that children don't need these after 40 pounds? BTW, I have noticed that the weights on diapers are not accurate for my daughter at all. She is always a size larger than the weights on the package lead me to believe she should be. We are going to need a size 6 sooner than she is going to potty train!

So Moxie, if you do this conference call, could you mention that maybe Huggies should consider a size 6 overnight for all the one year olds who can't be squeezed into a size 5? Thanks!

[Sheryl]

I agree with you on the grade skipping. When I was in preK-3, the teacher wanted my parents to skip me into kindergarten that year. The didn't, and didn't the following year when it was suggested either. Best decision they ever made. I was smart, but I was painfully shy and socially not at all ready for kindergarten.

Agree with whoever said you should get tested for gifted/talented even in kindergarten. I wasn't officially tested by the public school system (I went to Catholic school starting in 1st grade) until 6th grade, and didn't have an IEP in place until 7th. What a world of difference that made for me! In my district, it was a pull-out program one day a week in middle school, and it was such a relief to not have to "dumb myself down" to fit in with the rest of my class (there were 45 in my class, so there was no individual attention whatsoever, unless you weren't doing what everyone else was doing - then it was all negative attention). I can only imagine how things would have been if I had had that support from the early grades on.

[Charisse]

I'm good for today! No mean sock-snatching tigers visited Mouse last night, so we all got a nice night of sleep. (Actually, I stole an idea from Hedra and suggested dreaming about a beautiful garden where you can pick as many flowers as you want--she loved it.) She still loves montessori pre-school and all the cool field trips, and is adjusting to the kindergarteners being gone and the new kids being there. She's obSESSing about sounding out everything on earth, which makes it kind of slow to walk home, but is fun. I'm punting on kindergarten worries till next year as Mouse, at 3 years + 5 months now, will be a fall 2009 k-er.

Today, gypsies may not have her, whatever the price. :)

Hedra, I personally appreciate your perspective and when your posts are real long I just speed-scan'em.

[Caroline]

Really? Mung bean sprout smoothie girl can't get behind a flax seed oil rice krispie treat? I was with you on the smoothie recipe until I got to the sprouts. Cracks me up, what pushes up over the edge. The mere mention of carob made me cringe a little. Oh, the inadvertent scarring our 1970's parents did...

But I see where you're coming from - a rice krispie treat is a rice krispie treat, and health food is health food. No need to mix.

[Lisa]

Just chiming in:

I really value Hedra's posts. They're often long, but even more often very useful. (And - as with any post - if they don't interest me, or I'm in a hurry, I skim.)

and SarcastiCarrie: "THe GPA never quite recovered from that first quarter ugliness." Same exact story here - though it was the first year. I'm afraid *I'm* going to be one of THOSE parents - but if the alternative is a bright kid who coasts because everyone claps when he phones it in, then has to spend his 20s learning how to work, and how to fail... I'll be a pain in the schools' butts when needed.

[hydrogeek]

Wow, reading these comments makes me really glad for several things that were done so right in my education that I always took for granted. 1) Good teachers who let me sit in the back and read a book when others were struggling with letters, or gave me something harder to do when I was done with the class work. 2) A gifted program that pulled me out of class one morning a week and challenged me. 3) And this is most important: A mom who didn't let me 'slide through' on an easy track. As it was I still didn't learn study skills until I went back to college at 21, but without all the support I had in school, I think I would have found it unbearable.

Also, I'm kinda jealous that somebody got to read Hedra's birth story. Where might I find that?

[rudyinparis]

Like Mouse, Eldest won't start kindergarten until 2009... So for now we are happily coasting. Reading about "the school adventures"--it always make me wonder--because people say "Oh, it gets easier when they're older" but I can't see how that can be! All the logisitics, schedule-wise--the issues with peers, teachers, adjustments, scoring-to-the-tests... Moxie, when you mention that your babysitter meets you at your school for the little one, I just think, my stars, I would be so stressed every day hoping the babysitter won't be late. Mostly, I just can't get my mind wrapped around the logistics of who is where and when. Now, when they are so young, they are so firmly under my control {evil laugh}... Well, hats off to all of you who make it work each and every day.

[Zoë]

Sorry, Hedra--I do need to talk about you for just a few sentences more. I LOVE your responses, and I find your comments about your 4 kids fascinating. Please don't feel like you have to self edit to make things more "publishable" or whatever. No one is being forced to read a single word, and pixels don't cost anything. And you definitely don't come across as navel-gazing to this reader.

Mrs. M, as I'm sure you'll notice, this blog is almost free of ad hominem attacks; let's keep it that way, please! It's a rare find on the web.

[SarcastiCarrie]

Here's the page for hedra's entire pregnancy journal:
http://www.storknet.com/journals/hedra/index.html
I should not have read about the unmedicated double-breech birth while pregnant. And you get a 15-year old picture to put a face to a name.

Target and Jewel (part of Albertson's Sav-on) here always have both size 4 and size 5 Huggies Overnights. One of those online diaper places has the Size 3 Overnights in case your child should start sleeping through the night before age 2. At two years, four months, we still love a big cup (or three) of milk before bed too.

[Lisa C.]

"Same exact story here - though it was the first year. I'm afraid *I'm* going to be one of THOSE parents - but if the alternative is a bright kid who coasts because everyone claps when he phones it in, then has to spend his 20s learning how to work, and how to fail... I'll be a pain in the schools' butts when needed." <-- this, almost word-for-word could describe my brother, now 21, who had to take a semester off from college because the couldn't get his act together to get a STUDENT LOAN, for cripes' sake.

The thing that started his downward spiral? I hate to say it, but - a crappy kindergarten teacher. No lie.

Moxie, I really feel for you in this situation, because I know how awful it is for you to watch your son suffer all the while knowing that the potential outcome of that suffering could affect him for the rest of his life. It is frightening that teachers wield that much power (or sometimes GOOD, if you have a good teacher) but there you go.

Maybe I should volunteer at my son's school during his Pre-K year to find out who the best K teachers are. I'd have to lose sleep to do it, though. Sigh.

[Jean]

As someone who only had 6wks of 1st grade, before being skipped to 2nd, I hear you on the trauma that can lead to. Painfully shy, ostracized, bullied horrifically by the class leaders, and no adult did anything. Back then, no one thought much about it, unless you were living it.

My brother, they just started him early. Not much better for him. So I can completely understand your not wanting that for your child.

I posted in another of these discussions that we're having the public/private discussion for M's K year. But the other night, I found out inadvertantly that her reading comprehension and her determination and tenacity when reading are way higher than I thought, and it honestly freaked me out. I still don't think she's a true G/T, but now the gap between where she is and where her classmates may be is looking more like a chasm, and it's scaring me a bit. Dh has assured me, if we decide private is the best place for M and/or C, we will make it happen. I just never considered it until we had no other options for preschool.

As for the rest of the story, G/T began as a pull-out program when I was in 4th grade, and that, as well as bully girl disappearing, helped gain me better-than-outsider status. But when we moved to a district where G/T was a class in and of itself, I opted out, and I'm glad I did. Looking back, I was probably more high achiever than G/T, and I was more comfortable in school by then anyway. I was also lucky enough to have several equally bright classmates, so I didn't feel quite so different.

Fortunately M is the complete opposite of the painfully shy child I was. And she's learned such amazing social skills where she is. I just want to make sure, as we all do, that I give her every opportunity to realize her potential.

Moxie, I'm glad things are better, if not great, for your ds. I hope they continue to improve.

[liz]

I love Hedra's comments. Don't like 'em? Don't read 'em!

Idea for those having trouble finding nighttime diapers that fit: large-size daytime diapers (if you can find them) and a diaper doubler.

[liz]

And I really do think you should get El C moved to a different room if you can.

[beth]

Just saw the kindergarten post. At our school, the longer you linger with the kids the harder to let them go.... they say "just leave" and the kids are fine after a few minutes. And after get set in routine, not hard at all. Reading is FABULOUS but a teacher that makes the parents stay for 20mins... that is a lot especially when parents can read at night... just makes that separation harder too. Do they have mandated reading time by law or something??? And they don't want to do it so pass it off to you? Why not have an older child come in and practice reading (grade 1, 2 or 3) and read to their little buddy??? Then the kids also have something to look forward too, kindergartners love the big kids. We have family groups at our school when they do activities. And the big kids each have a preschooler they help at lunch, love it! And less stress for the parents. There is something to be said for sticking it out. But the teachers are working for you and your kids, if you are not happy, and kid not happy... you have nothing to lose by moving them.

[me]

My brother had an absolutely horrible 1st grade teacher. My mother was at the school at least weekly fighting with her. On his report card, she'd do things like give him an F for "respects school property" because he lost too many pencils. He wasn't carving up the desks, mind you, didn't bother any other kids in any way - just couldn't sit still, organize himself, or keep track of things. But she just always seemed to have it "out" for him, and looked for ways to give him F's.

Why can't K -2 just play to children's strengths and aim to instill self confidence? I feel like he got a bad reputation with the grades ahead, even though he probably did not deserve it. He never liked school, ever, and didn't go to college. He is successful as an adult, I just always felt badly that he had such a hard time.

On another note, a friend of mine has a son a pretty significant disability - he has a lame hand, and one leg shorter than the other. Also a few cognitive delays. His PE teacher FAILED him!!! The poor kid can hardly run at all - I think he should get credit from showing up!

[Aria]

At our school we have "book baskets" for 15 mins at the start of school. Parents aren't required to be there, there are always other parents who can sit and read with those who need to run off.

We have plenty of other issues with our kindergarten, but the book baskets work well. It also follows through the rest of the grades and is morphed into a silent reading time in the older grades.

Anyone have any ideas on a teacher new to our school and school philosophy who doesn't seem to really enjoy children? She seems to not like them or trust them. I don't know if that's a holdover from her last school, but man it's really not fun.

We don't have a chance to change classes as there isn't another K class at our school. We could move schools, but then we'd miss out on all the wonderful teachers waiting in the higher grades.
So despite the not so good start, we're sticking through the year, I guess.

[Clare]

Hi Moxie and readers,
My name is Clare and I work on behalf of GoodNites and Pull-Ups at Edelman Public Relations. I was reading Moxie’s post about our bedwetting conference call last week and I noticed a few of you had questions about products.

Julie and Carrie – Huggies does not sell Overnites in a size 6. The largest size available is a 5 (27-40 lbs). If your child needs a larger size, you might want to try the S-M size (38-65 lbs) in GoodNites. GoodNites come in two package sizes – Jumbo (17 or 13) and Mega (27 or 21) depending on the size of the pant. Pull-Ups also come in a Nighttime version and are available in 2T-3T (18-34 lbs) or 3T-4T (32-40 lbs).

I hope this helps to clear up some of your questions. If you have any more questions, would like product samples or advice on, feel free to email me at: clare.battersby@edelman.com

[Andromeda]

Wow, there's a lot of negative commentary about grade-skipping on this post! Well, let me be different :). I skipped a grade -- my choice -- in junior high, and it was one of the best things I ever did. I was so bored (and it didn't help that, being introverted and geeky, I had literally zero friends) that I honestly thought I would die. These days I'd have been on antidepressants out the wazoo, but no one did that back then, and anyway addressing my situation was better than medicating it so it didn't feel as bad...I mean, it still sucked, but I didn't hate my life quite so much, and I started making sort-of friends, and in general it felt like I had a way out, someday. Plus which I got to take higher-level classes sooner, which alleviated the boredom a bit.

There was a paper I found here (http://cty.jhu.edu/research/index.html) once -- can't find it at the moment, particularly with little miss V crawling on my keyboard -- but the upshot of it was:
* Mildly gifted kids (IQ 120 or whatever) are generally best served by within-grade acceleration, like advanced coursework, AP classes in high school, enrichment, etc.
* Profoundly gifted kids (like, IQ 150-ish) are generally best served by grade-skipping. It's hard to meet their academic requirements in any other way, and the social effects are usually neutral to positive; the gap between them and their agemates is so large that they actually find it easier to get along with people who are older and more on their level intellectually, even if the gap is bigger in some other ways.

As I said, my experience socially with grade-skipping was positive -- I still didn't make a *real* friend until 12th grade, but at least I had a social circle. And I know some people with incredibly profound acceleration experiences -- like, going to college at 12 or 13 -- who (admittedly somewhat to my surprise!) report that they had a fine time socially.

I *do* think I was awfully immature as a 17-year-old college freshman and would have benefited from having another year, but a year doing something interesting and worthwhile (like a study abroad program or a job), not, God help us, another year of high school.

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