Q&A 3-for-1: sleeping through the night, sibling squabbles, cursing

Three, three, three posts in one!

Beaver Girl writes:

"When, in general, do exclusively breastfed babies start sleeping through the night?   I would define that as six hours in a row or so.  I have heard answers that vary from 12 weeks to 2 years!  I know every child is different.  Just wondering in general so I can adjust my expectations - and/or those of my MIL.  She keeps asking if my 8 week old is sleeping through the night yet - which is getting irritating.  She seems to think adding cereal (to what? breastmilk?) would mean he would sleep more."

Two things:

I have no idea. El Chico slept through the night (the medical definition is 5 hours in a row, but I'll go with yours of 6 hours in a row) around 13 months or so. El Pequeño did (temporarily) at 2 weeks (and then regressed with teething, and then if you read my blog today, well, let's just say he's not sleeping through the night anymore). My mom says I did at under a year and my brother did at 3 years, but he says he still wakes up once or twice a night (he's 30 years old). So who knows? There's probably an average, but do you really want your kid to be average?

Lie. Tell her he's sleeping "fine." "Like a baby." And feel free to lie to anyone else who's going to give you crap or have inappropriate expectations about baby things. Because nobody knows and all kids are different and you know your kid better than anyone else does. Also, the person asking will never know the difference, and if it saves you the same dumb "why don't you let him cry/put cereal in his bottle/give him Benadryl/my kids all slept through at 4 weeks" conversation, it's all good.

(Also, when I started El Chico on rice cereal he started waking up more often at night. So YMMV on the cereal thing anyway.)

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Karla writes:

"I have three toddlers (21 months this month).  Basil is constantly taking things from Zeke.  When i am in the room, i have been asking to return the toy to Zeke.  Usually, i end up helping Basil do this by doing it with him, hand-over-hand.

Here is the second problem:  whenever Zeke gets a toy taken away, he screams bloody murder (very high, piercing scream at the very top of his lungs).  My husband works nights, and is therefore sleeping during the day, so this doesn't suit him very well. Yet, I don't want to punish Zeke for screaming, because I don't want Basil to get away with what he is doing.  I wouldn't always know that he was taking things, because I am not always in the same room (or on the same floor).  Is he too young to teach him to come and tell me when there is a problem?  Do I want to teach him to tattle?"

It seems to me that you should be working toward the goal of not having to mediate between Basil and Zeke. Eventually, Zeke should be able to tell Basil not to take his stuff and get him to give it back himself. Right now you're putting yourself squarely in the middle by making yourself the one who forces Basil to give the stuff back, and you're reinforcing your role as middleperson by getting Zeke to tell you when Basil's taken his stuff. You're also inadvertantly giving Basil the role of Aggressor and Zeke the role of Victim, which will cause problems for their relationship into adulthood.

By redirecting your attention and energy you can start setting them up to work it out themselves. When Basil takes something, instead of going after him to give it back, focus your attention on Zeke and helping him to speak up and ask for it back (you'll have to follow through by making Basil put it into Zeke's hand at the beginning). That should a) demotivate Basil to take things, since he won't get any attention by doing it, and b) start to empower Zeke to defend himself from Basil. It's not going to happen overnight. In fact, it probably won't happen for months and months, but it's better than the situation you're currently setting up. It may also help with the screaming problem, because you'll be giving Zeke something proactive to do instead of just shrieking like a dog whistle.

If you haven't read it already, run don't walk to the library/your local bookseller/Amazon to get Siblings Without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish. They have great sections on how to teach your kids to be able to solve their own squabbles.

Where's the other toddler in all of this? You must be an iron woman to get through this squabbly stage with three!

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Liz writes:

"I have a potty mouth. I would fit right in with those well-known sailors. My husband is only slightly better than me. It's not that I curse all the time just that when I do it's pretty offensive. It's like a reflex; someone cuts me off and I'm cursing him/her and forgetting that my son is in the back seat. I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm going to ask but the question is: how do I learn to curtail the offensive language before my son starts to repeat everything I've said? My son, Riley, is now 16 months old and has a bunch of words but he's just starting to show signs of word repetition. Right now he says something that sounds suspiciously like "oh, shit!". Of course it's garbled enough that it could be interpreted as something else (luckily). The last thing that I want is to be the parent of "that kid". Ya know, that one that calls little Suzie an asshole for stealing his toy at daycare? I'm obviously aware of the problem but keep procrastinating and thinking "well, I've still got a lttle time". The simple solution is to just stop, but that's a lot harder than it appears. I know I'm not planning on forgoing curse words altogether because there are time when a simple "gosh darnit" just won't do the trick. I just need to figure out how to stop the verbal vomit in front of Riley."

Damned if I know. Seriously. I curse like a trucker. It's bad. Very bad. A few months ago we went to my SIL's house and within 30 seconds of walking in the door El Chico said, "Those fucking people!" (I don't know who he was talking about--not my ILs.) My MIL almost shit a brick lost her composure and asked indignantly, "Where did he hear that language?!" directing an accusatory glance at my poor, genteel husband. My SIL, bless her heart, jumped in with, "Mom, he lives in New York City. He hears it on the street all the time." I love her, my innocent SIL. But it was a close call. Almost close enough to help me stop cursing.

Comments

[Linda]

Beaver Girl: my breastfed babies slept through the night around 5 or 6 months. However, that certainly wasn't every night from there on out. But it was a lot better with a couple solid nights of sleep per week.

Moxie, I've ordered Siblings Without Rivalry from the Library, especially since you and Jody (Raising WEG) are both pushing it.

Liz-send your kid to play with mine. Mine will probably be "those kids" who know all the naughty words.

[janet]

Holy Cow! This entry just did wonders for my anxiety level! I had no idea that the definition of sleeping through the night was 5-6 hours. I kept reading on other blogs crowing over the fact that their dear little ones were sleeping 10 hours or even more, feeling that my kid was destined for the short bus to school, when in fact she has been sleeping 5-6 hours from around 12 weeks or so. *slapping forhead* ok, I can go relax now and stop worrying about what everyone else's little one is doing.

This site RULZ!

[Amy]

Beaver Girl,

Both of my children were exclusively breastfed unti 4 months, at which point I introduced rice cereal. My daughter slept through the night (7 pm to 7 am) at 10 weeks, regressed back to waking up once in the night at about 13 weeks, and settled into a solid 7 pm to 7 am routine by about 5 months. My son (the older of my two) didn't sleep a solid 7 pm - 7 am until about 5.5 months.

Now, you asked about a six hour stretch -- both of my kids settled into that by 8 weeks. They went from two night-time wakings down to one, which meant that their first stretch of sleep was from about 7 (for my daughter) or 9 (for my son) until about 2 or 3 am, when they'd eat, go right back to sleep, and then get up somewhere between 6 and 7 am.

And I don't know if you co-sleep, or if that makes a difference, but for what its worth, my son started sleeping in his crib in his own room at 5 weeks (because he was so damn loud while sleeping) while my daughter slept in our bed or in her bassinet in our room until 3.5 months, at which point I moved her to the crib.

Just remember that every baby is different. That said, based on my very unscientific study of my children and those of my friends, I think the 8-week mark is pretty consistent for dropping down to a single night-feeding and a longer (i.e., 4-7 hour) stretch of nighttime sleep. Hang in there -- eventually, you won't be able to get them up in the morning (as is currently the case with my 4.5 year old!).

[J]

Beavergirl,
My breastfed 13 month old isn't sleeping through the night. Around 10 months, in desperation, my husband and I started to experiment with giving her cereal before she nursed at night, or giving her a bottle before bed instead of nursing, first breastmilk with cereal, then formula with cereal. In our experience, the addition of cereal (and particularly in the formula) made her sleep MUCH MUCH WORSE than our regular routine of nursing at night. It made her gassy and uncomfortable. The thinking is that it fills up their tummies and then they sleep better, but I really don't think that's the way it works. Some breastfed babies do sleep through the night earlier and some later. Good luck, and hopefully yours will start soon. Jennifer

[J]

And one more thing, for Liz. I read somewhere that if you don't want your kids to pick up on the swear words, but are having a hard time stopping yourself, then when you hear it escape from your mouth, immediately follow it up with a bunch of babble, and the kid will not be able to sort out the cuss word from the rest. For example,

Oh, fuck--aluckalackalockalooloo!
She's full of shit--alitamitaritafitafoo!

I don't know if it works, my DH is just starting to say words so we are getting ready for this issue too, but it might.

[janet]

oh, and 1 more thing....

I have a phd in potty mouth and for the most part, my 6 year old refrained from cussing except for the occasional "dammit" and "shit" starting around 3 yrs old. Now that she is in first grade, all bets are off because ALL the kids cuss. She just came home the other day and the cat got under her feet, tripped her up and she said "back off you fucking cat!" I about died.
So if they don't cus now, they will for sure when they get around older kids, so don't sweat it!

[Heather]

Beaver Girl,
I have an exclusively breast-fed 11 month old. His sleep patterns can best be described as erratic. He slept through the night (medical definition) from day one! He was over 10 lbs. at birth, 11 by week 1, 12 by week 2, etc., so they told me not to wake him for a feeding after we got home from the hospital. By 1 month, he had been sleeping for about 8 straight hours. By 3 months, he was waking up every 1-2 hours. So, even once it happens, it doesn't seem to be linear. He went back to his old patterns by 5 months, was sleeping 12 straight hours by 6, and then did the same 1-2 hour waking at 8 months (major sleep regression, and perhaps the hardest to deal with). By 10 months, he was back to 12 straight hours. Who knows what a year will bring! Hang in there. It does get better, then worse, then even better and on and on.
Heather

[Jody]

Well, my kids weren't exclusively breastfed, but Gemma slept a 6-hour stretch at 6 weeks (and that was after being born 7.5 weeks early, so needless to say, we freaked out), Elba slept a 6-hour stretch at around 5 months (3 months adjusted), and Wilder didn't manage it until he was, er, about 2 years old. But he had horrible reflux, so there were mitigating factors.

I've heard that the 5-6 hour stretch comes a tiny bit later than most people assume: closer to 5 months than 3. But you'll get lots of folks swearing it's possibly by 12 weeks. 8 weeks seem early to me: not out of the realm of the possible, but no cause for feeling put-upon if your kid hasn't made it there yet. Then again, I never had wake-up-to-play kids, not even when they hit their various points of sleep regression. If they were awake, all of 'em wanted to nurse, and once I did that, they went back to sleep.

If there hadn't been THREE of them engaging in that sort of behavior for a year or 18 months (those darn regressive behaviors), I would have just gone about my happy co-sleeping life. Or so I assume.

Karla, Moxie is probably about as spot-on with the grabbing thing as you can be, although I tended to throw in random "spoken to the ceiling" reminders about no grabbing, and I'll be honest, it's hard to be consistent with three toddlers. I mean, it's the goal, but at some point, you just put the stupid toy in time-out and move onto something else.

Yeah, toys in time-out are often the best solution. Much easier to remove the toy than a kid (but I've never been a fan of time-outs, and certainly not for toddlers).

Another option: after you prompt the first child to ask for the toy back, suggest that the grabbing child get a chance at the toy in five minutes, and set a timer. (I broke three during that phase.) Chances are good, long before the timer rings, the aggreived child will have moved onto something else, and the grabbing child can have his turn, if he's still interested, which he probably won't be. But the sharing principle and the taking-turns principle are subtly introduced.

No idea whether this is actually sanctioned by Faber and Mazlish, for all I know it's too much parental interference, but you know what? With toddler triplets, a lot of bets are off, as far as I'm concerned.

[Jody]

Oh, and Moxie? It's incredibly common during the second year for almost all triplet disputes to involve two of the three toddlers. There just seems to be a rule that one of the kids will float along, not engaging the other two and being perfectly content to find a neutral corner.

The danger, from what I can see, is labeling those behaviors as if they're going to last forever, and then getting the behavior you've predicted. It's very, very hard to create a dynamic where all three kids feel they have permission to be the aggressor, the defender, and the neutral party. But from a developmental point of view, they all have it in them, and they should all get their turns at each role.

I can't say enough for the value of removing each child in turn for one-on-one time with the parents by the middle of the second year. We introduced parent-child swimming lessons at 20 months and they had a REMARKABLE effect on everyone's emotional equilibrium for the next year and a half. It wasn't just the baby getting the individual attention, either: opening up the different pairings freed the babies from becoming too "stuck in a rut" when it came to leading and following in the group.

That pack mentality can be a dangerous thing if it's not curbed: I've seen too many multiples who got labeled as toddlers and never let those labels go.

[Sherry]

My kids weren't exclusively breastfed, either, and began sleeping longer stretches (10 hours, I believe) at 3 months. But, honestly, that doesn't mean ANYTHING. My sister's kids are 5 and 7, neither of which slept through the night until after their first birthdays. I agree w/Moxie, LIE if you have to.

The fighting thing? My kids are still flopping around so, no input on that quite yet.

The swearing...Ohhhhhhhh, the swearing that goes on in my house. I've really started to try and curb it myself, but shit. It's fucking hard.

[Brooklyn Girl]

Moxie--I like your advice to lie about how babies are sleeping, and I know I should do this with people such as my mother who have been urging me to let me 4 month old cry it out since he was, oh, about a month old (I have no problem with CIO as a philosophy, btw--it just isn't for me at this juncture). The thing is, though, that I still feel like I need to let folks know that my sleeping situation is generally pretty poor as an excuse for why I'm such a mess. If my baby is sleeping fine, then it's not as excusable that I haven't cleaned the bathroom in....well, awhile. Right?

[Moxie]

I blame it on the cat. She woke my up before I had kids, so there's no reason she's not still waking me up all the time, no?

[anita]

My exclusively BF baby slept through at about 6 weeks and would awake to nurse and then just go back to sleep again. He got used to being breastfed and held by Mum or Dad to fall asleep and we indulged him for about 7 months.

Then we taught him to fall asleep on his own with the help of the Secrets of the Baby Whisperer book. It's a pretty simple method: have a routine, for example breastfeed, bath, book & then you put them to sleep while still awake and leave.

If they cry you go pick them up (straight away - don't let them cry) and rub the baby's back and say sshhh until they stop crying and then you put them back in the crib awake again. If they start to cry again you pick them up and rub and ssshhh. Then you might just rub their back and say sshh while they lie in their crib. You just keep doing this and eventually they give up and go to sleep! It took about 45 mins the first night and then less and less time every other night. It is killer on the back when you first do it because you pick them up and put them down about 50 times!! But now we just put him in the crib after his routine and he falls asleep by himself.

What's fantastic about this method is that the baby learns to fall asleep on his own so when he wakes up in the middle of the night in the dark, he doesn't panic, he just goes back to sleep on his own. Occaisonally if he cries and can't get back to sleep on his own I go in and just pat him on the back or pick him up and hold him for about two minutes and that is enough to calm him and I put him back in his crib while he's still awake and he goes back to sleep.

It's a nice method to teach a baby to sleep - the baby doesn't cry for a long time, he cries and his needs are met with a cuddle and a calming sound. Being able to sleep is a great skill for baby to learn so you are teaching him a very valuable lesson and in a kind way instead of just leaving him in the crib to scream and effectively saying to him "you figure it out". I hated the idea of my baby falling asleep because he was so exhausted from crying a la the crying it out method. I think that is just so mean! You can't spoil a little baby!!

I was a bit skeptical of someone called the "baby whisperer" but I found her book had a lot of very useful advice!

[instamom]

thanks moxie (and jody). i'll get right on that book. and we actually made a schedule just recently for one-on-one time with our kids. once/week, my husband or myself will take one of our kids out alone.